Leaving Pxleyes due to unfair voting patterns

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:41 pm
lchappell wrote:The wondering about who has achieved vote medals...its just a good indicator as to how many voters there actually were...who they were is not necessarily important, but lets us members know how many people are looking and or voting.

http://www.pxleyes.com/3D-contest/19999 ... ments.html
If you click on the orange "show" button under vote medals (under the most commented, most faved and so on entries) you see who got a vote medal.
I hope, that's what you mean.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:00 pm
Lelaina wrote:
lchappell wrote:The wondering about who has achieved vote medals...its just a good indicator as to how many voters there actually were...who they were is not necessarily important, but lets us members know how many people are looking and or voting.

http://www.pxleyes.com/3D-contest/19999 ... ments.html
If you click on the orange "show" button under vote medals (under the most commented, most faved and so on entries) you see who got a vote medal.
I hope, that's what you mean.


Hey there it is, thanks Lelaina. 8-} I see it now. The new lay out had me stumbling a little.
Trust your captain .... but keep your seatbelt securely fastened.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:02 pm
I only have 4800vp, But if i had 5000vp, i would also favor the suggestion made by Alan2641.

:-BD
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:23 am
Alan2641 wrote:I would like to see my vote power in all contests be reduced to the level I have obtained in an area.

Sounds fair in a way :-)
One thing:
Alan2641 wrote:If I wanted to get more vote power in 3d or drawing I should have to enter contests and be judged by the experts in the field.

What makes someone an expert? If a member has a certain level gained by the quality and/or amount of entries, or the average % score from all the entries with perhaps the times that you ended in the top 3?

In case of the last you could make each VP something like:
(av. % score) * (% of top 3 entries) / 10 = VP
In that case a member should have at least 7 entries to have VP.

Apart from that, I'd always keep some members (or just mods) keep a certain amount of VP as a socalled special jury to have a certain stable factor in voting.




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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:39 am
I agree with Alan and Wazowsky that votepower should be based on skill level in that area and not just how much someone has voted over the years. IMHO it should just be one person equals one vote, that's straightforward and clean.

We should also educate people on what to look for before voting (like you guys do in ps & photography contests, you look for shadow angles, proper blending and other specifics). In 3D these are some of the things voters should look at:
1. Even geometry. If you can see polygon edges in a rounded surface in the high res, that is bad.
2. Creative or realistic lighting. How well has real world lighting been simulated ubless there is a creative for not following it. Are the shadows believable?
3. Is the material or texture used believable/realistic enough? Does it reflect enough, too less or too much? Are the colours, specularity, refraction and shadows correct for that material. For instance, water should look like water not plastic. Is it interesting..does it have bumps and displacements..or is it flat and boring?
4. Then of course there's composition, perspective, color scheme, mood and the concept. These apply to entries in any contest as well as 3D.
5. Last but not least is rendering quality. It should be smooth without jagged edges and noise.

This is not at all an exhaustive list but it covers some basics. If ppl were to consider even these, at least their vote would be based on some sort of criteria and would be more meaningful.

Do you think that ONE VOTE ONE PERSON is a good idea?
Last edited by rumi on Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:15 pm
I think Alan's idea for VP has merit. As far as voting, I have 50 VP but did not vote last week and have been busy with life in general, shooting and chopping for a little $$.
Solkee, Space Ranger and others have explained it quite well.
But lets take your entry the Lute as an example. 3 things I saw after observation was you did not post a hi-res at first and that can be a loss of % with many voters. Even though you did post the hires later you could have got some lower votes before you posted it. The other was the darkness which some may not like. The entry was fine except the sound hole is out of perspective.
Enough said I m just giving an observation of why it could have scored lower.
You got a dang nice score going for only 13 entries so someone must have voted other entries of yours right? This vote thing has been hashed around since 2007 and most likely before my time here.
I do think WOW votes and maybe some friendly voting could be an issue. So what! chop on, this is fun for me as what I do in ps, ai, id, can be quite boring in the real world.
Actually I do welcome Alan's suggestion, maybe it could work.
Be cool now \M/ :YMCOWBOY: 8-)
ps: what Waz said of jury vote. :-BD
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:05 pm
One person one vote? I'm thinking no...unless there is a type of Jury vote as in the older days...and here is why: There ARE some 'experts' in their fields on this site...those who make a decent living in their chosen field and therefor really know/consider multiple factors when voting...so with the type of voting you are considering, a new-comer to any given field would carry as much weight as someone who spent years learning their craft? I'm more in agreement with Alan's idea of giving merit to somehow balancing VP with the current level of the member...which is not a bad idea...to get to say level 25+, you would have had to have many entries here and won quite a few contests in which your entries were judged by a jury of your peers as having a certain level of quality and you, as having a certain level of competence...

I have admitted, although I have 5000 VP...I rarely vote in the 3D section as I am only now messing with 3D (thank's to Rob who talked me into playing around a bit) and am just gaining a perspective into how damn difficult it can be...I started chopping a while ago, entered a few beginner contests ( I still can't mess with the Big-Boys, Yet...) but at least have an idea what that takes to make a good entry...

As far as the "WOW" factor votes...well...welcome to the real world...If I don't WOW my clients with my wedding portfolio of portrait shots...I don't sign new clients, period...the wow factor plays heavily in real life when you are working as an artist. I may have the most technically perfect photos in my advertising portfolio, but, if there is no wow factor for the client, they will book elsewhere...simply put, they have NO IDEA what went into a shot, they just want fantastic photos.

As far as 'friendly' votes...again I reiterate what was mentioned earlier in the thread...we Mods do watch for this, and if it's very obvious that it is an attempt to sway the results, the votes are double checked, and if there is a consensus that it IS an attempt to do something unethical, we remove the votes and send a warning to the member/s attempting to do so. Sometimes a members 'style' becomes signature and preferred and other members do vote a bit more highly for that member...we do not remove those votes as it is a preference to that style regardless to our own personal preferences. In this case...the members "have spoken"...they just like the style, period...do I really care for Andy Worhall images? No, but, he's famous and I'm not....LOL.... apparently, a lot of people did. To paraphrase Robert...I would probably not pay $10 for some of the $100,000 pieces of art in museums, but, that's just me and my tastes.
Only a life lived for other is a life worth living - Albert Einstein
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:36 pm
Of course Wow factor is important. I know some wedding photogs and they catch the most amazing shots. Where for me I am a nature shooter and I have entered images in here that may have only scored for example 13th out of 70 entries that in other places got inspiration photo of the week.
Big sites, different members I don't let this bother me. I have been published, I did an assignment for a newspaper recently of a famous annual Winter Bird Festival. I took pics of the event, not the birds. Was I bored? no, met great folks got great shots of them and 1 guide that is biologist and teaches college asked me to take photos of him in action along with his clients. It was great and have new friends because of it.
Was well worth my efforts beyond what I was paid for the assignment.
Here is a place for learning and fun imho. Wow factor I am speaking of, for example in 2D can look good until reviewed in hi-res and then the roughness comes out. Bad extractions, ragged edges, poor blending, flat, etc. I take all this into consideration when voting. No hi res then WOW ain't sqwat. imho
We were taught in college to blow it up and pay attention to detail, keep it clean! This is how I personally judge, others may differ. I also do work in illustrator designing tshirts and do flyers brochures and business cards and whatever else comes along. This can get mundane to say the least but it is what it is and $ can be made. I do not say much here about my work or education, but people seem to want qualifications to vote. Also have done 3D with Maya and then Zbrush which is not really 3D but it is a dang hard piece of software to grasp for me.
I have seen loads of members come and go and some who could win a 1st with every entry. I miss some of these old members. It is different here now to say the least and yes that 4 million dollar pic of the Rhine river, well more power to the Author as I would not give him the cost of the ink to print it personally.
It's a great life if you don't weaken
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:39 pm
Yep....I get where you are coming from...I just brought it up as an example of the "why" the WOW factor is important. We have many talented members here, and many new people...it all factors in. Get the basics down, then, increase your skills...

I vote much the same...no Hi-Rez..."possibly" something to hide=lower vote...especially in photo where many PS techniques are not permitted...many of the other members I know feel the same. I love to teach and never have a problem with or not answered a PM of "how did you do that?" or " what did you use?"

I LOVE Pxl...and hope to be here for many more years...for all of these reasons...hell, it ain't perfect, but, it's home....and FUN!!! :mrgreen:
Only a life lived for other is a life worth living - Albert Einstein

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:45 pm
One vote per person, heaven forbid, as a mod I see how many new members vote very high or very low on entries that deserve neither, and I'm not even talking about friendly voting. I like the idea of getting vote power dependent on history. I also really like Alan's idea of having different vote power in different sections.
I'm happy with my vote power in the Photo section, but would happily go back to 1 in the Photoshop section. I have only lately started voting there, trying to contribute, but really don't feel I have the expertise for such a high vote power there. I wouldn't dream on voting in 3D, don't know enough about it.
Not convinced that vote power should be tied into a persons level. There are people who know a lot about a subject, without actually knowing how to achieve the result themselves.
These discussions are all interesting and I'm looking forward to see what changes will be made.
Vibeke
I would like to be an emerging talent! Instead of a submerging Dinosaur!!!
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