Entry Score Percentages

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:27 pm
lchappell wrote:Fille in answer to your statement I am saying that no member will ever loose vote power we all should have the ability to cast 1 vote only... not 10 not 20 not 30. There are over 3000 registered members, out of that I venture that maybe 25% of those are active and of this number only about 10% vote whats the point in voting and or participating if you have ZERO vote power.

:-O
ohh... now i get it in this way: you think we get much more voters if every member have 1 vote to give? i feel something is yet wrong here how i understund it... ohh... i must thinking more... :-?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:32 pm
Stoli4naq wrote:To be honest, I don't understand why a level 9 member, me, has no voting power by default. Have I not proved that I'm not a ghost of some other account?.. :-? Honestly, I don't have time to vote on every single one of the 50 entries in even one contest - maybe I'm wrong, but in the new rules there was smth about needing to vote for every single entry in a contests in order to get results.

You dont have to vote on all entries in all contests, you're encouraged to vote on all entries within a contest. This is to give a better representation of how the final scores would be like (comparing the entries to each other). What does it say if one entry gets 200 votes and another 25? If both get more or less the same amount of votes, it would get a more fair end score (not sure if I made myself clear this way). Why level 9 members dont have standard VP? Why would they? Level 9 says something about your artistic level or how many entries you made, not if you're a reliable voter per se (btw, of course dont take this personal, it's just to show that the one doesnt have to do with the other).
Stoli4naq wrote:And now I'm finding out that the mods are removing votes if they were "too far away from reality :shock: ".

My dear Stoli :X ;;) @};- , if you find out about something, then do it well :d Check :-b
wazowski wrote:As Eladine said, you're free to vote what you think is best suitable for an entry. It would be different if it turns out that you try to cheat. Let's say, you'd vote low for all entries and high for one which happens to be a good friend or whatever relationship you have with such person. Or vote very low because you also have an entry in the same contest. Things like that. Btw, if people tend to vote 60-70% on an entry and you 40%, then that doesnt have to mean a thing (like that you'd cheat). There's a bit more involved.

So no, it's not that the almighty mods decide whether or not something is good or bad enough to be a vote. :-) SO yes, you absolutely have the right to give 10 or 100% if you think the entry deserves that.

Stoli4naq wrote:About the contests - I'm just a bit upset because of the voting system, I know who the people with the high vp are, I've already managed to figure out what sort of entries they like - because, "similar" entries finish first every single time. If I want a high place, I need to make smth "of their season", which sucks...

Mmm...well, I disagree with that. You should make what you want and totally agree with that. Screw the people who wouldnt like what you made (or is that too easily thought? :d )

Stoli4naq wrote: That is why I'd prefer a one guy=one vote system. It's fair. And it will bring back the diversity, cuz dunno how about you, but I'm getting tired of all of these similar-looking entries.

Diversity comes with different thinking, not with low/high votes (is my opinion). You think people wouldnt make the things they made because of a risk of lower vote?

Stoli4naq wrote:And, worst of all, newbies will think "well, this is must be the way to go, if the scarred faces etc. finish in the top 5, this must be the only true beauty".

I dont get it anymore :-?? , I thought you wanted everyone the same VP...but then newbies will think that something is great and vote high. Which is something you dont want...and well, that's a reason that newbies will get some time to develop VP :-)

Stoli4naq wrote: I don't think so, there are many people out there, who would LOVE smth that makes some the big guys around here develop a rash just from looking at it :lol: So, with the things the way they are, I don't find it fair to participate..

Ehh...everyone is free to make whatever he/she wants (inside the guidelines of course), so give it a shot :-BD . But I dont get it, you're afraid that these entries wont end high? I guess it depends on the quality, but in the end it's also a competition, right?

Stoli4naq wrote:I, most probably, will - cuz I love u guys and I really love chopping.. :ymblushing: When I have enough time not to care at all .. or maybe I just need to get drunk and going!! =))

Ok, get drunk, I'm pretty sure some guys and girls here will join you and then make something mindblowing! Good luck! :d




:mrgreen:
Last edited by wazowski on Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:03 am
Each member should be guaranteed 1 vote from the beginning of their membership no more no less...who's to say that people do not know how to vote they vote for what they like...if it's a good entry it will win. I have seen a good number of people continue too loose VP with this new system. Stoli4naq is right by saying the 1 vote per member will bring back some diversity and we all will have a say in the out come of these contests. I have invited several of my friends and acquaintances to become members here and the number 1 complaint they have is the voting system...therefore they do not vote.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:17 am
:shock: Wow, now re-reading my post really confused even myself.. =))

Bullets:
1) As I've said, and I'm sticking with it,
a) I'm not here for glory (p.s. how on Earth did I get level 9 :shock: ), so I don't reeeally mind which place my entry takes - I have one that finished last, but... I'm tremendously proud of myself and with it, cuz it was smth I made all by myself from scratch, with a pen tool and a brush, using a mouse :d
b) I don't care for vp either, I just want to participate in choosing the best of the best, cuz it's fun - and I can't :(( One member, one vote, done.

2) I've given 10%, I've given 100% - and damn I'm proud of it! =)) No matter the system, I would've continued voting whatever I felt best. ...if only I had that opportunity, but my voice is zero. :YMSIGH:

3) Higher voting power = more "weight" is not fair to those of us who really do care about the place but do not have the opportunity to get vp by voting this much. Yep, it's better to have roughly the same number of votes for each entry, but on the other hand - for some entries I personally don't want to vote neither high nor low, prefer to give comments to help :-)

4) Why old member don't have vp by default - to be honest I must've been too naive, that never even crossed my mind. So yep, there is logic not to have vp on basis of "I've been around much, done a lot" if those things are really happening.. :shock:

But if I had to choose wether to allow more vp to those who have more time to spend voting or just to let it be "organic" with one member having one vote, I'd go for the second, for it does seem to be the lesser evil. :-?

Oh it's gotten too late to write smth which is not nonsense.

So my position is above. But, thanks to not-telling-who I will give this system a go, vote in one or if I can two contests for every single entry and see what, if anything happens ;;) Will tell you next week how it went :d
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:32 am
Stoli4naq wrote:So my position is above. But, thanks to not-telling-who I will give this system a go, vote in one or if I can two contests for every single entry and see what, if anything happens ;;) Will tell you next week how it went :d



thats what I do.. you think i really have time to vote with all those contests? too many if you ask me... now i want to go look at a running contest and its not even on the main page anymore.. instead i got to find it inbetween 24 others (or something) on a list o.o; I have to scroll down to see the whole list o.o;
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:51 am
Eladine wrote:now i want to go look at a running contest and its not even on the main page anymore.. instead i got to find it inbetween 24 others (or something) on a list o.o; I have to scroll down to see the whole list o.o;

Tip: Navigation bar. My Stuff -> my votes. There you'll see all the entries that still need your vote. First the ones from this week's contests, under these the ones from the coming week :-BD

PS: Sander, sorry for ruining (a bit) your original topic :ymblushing:




:mrgreen:
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:26 am
Nobody has ever gotten 90% from me. Nobody has ever gotten under 25%. That probably won't change any time soon.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:02 am
I think Stoli4naq is right in saying that vote power should be linked to level and maybe even more to top three places.(or score)
So there are more ways and its easier to get more vote power. Also maybe there should be a limit to vote power, so all people with the same level and expierence will eventually have the same vote power.

About the 1 1 1 system. Lets explain it for myself; you mean 1 vote per member per contest and the entry with the highest number of votes wins...right! That doesnt sound all bad. I do feel there should be a difference in votepower, but besides vote power depending on the outcome of a contest(this way you could still have scores and lists on best voter etc..) it could also depend on how many votes the member has made. If someone has taken the effort to vote and check out the entries he should earn some vote power. But comes up the issue: who's to say someone is not going to click through all the entries without even checking them just to get vote power. Maybe someone got a solution to that.

But there is one major fault in the 1 1 1 sytem: I like the fact that there's a score linked to an entry, I think that thats a very important part of the site. You need to have a score on every entry.
Is there a way to do that with the 1 1 1 system!? If not, I dont think it could ever work.
Or am I reading your system wrong, then please explain Ichappell!?

I think another reason for the vote power system to change might be that members get influenced by the comments and number of favorites that are placed with an entry. Knowing that the entry is problably going to end up high, thinking about your own vote power, thus voting higher than you would normally do. If I would vote the way Id like to for this example, that is very low cause I dont like it. I would loose hard earned vote power.
Now that wouldnt be so bad if I knew I could also earn it another way, like through level, expierence and results.

And Stoli4naq, dont stop participating. \M/

Wazowski: not ruining anything thanks for replying and *-:)
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:00 am
Sander what I mean is do away with the vote power altogether. Every member will have 1 vote that counts as 1 per entry. We can still give a numerical score from 0%-100% the same as it is now, so in the end each entry will have a final score. If we do away with the vote power thing I feel that more people will vote, for they will not fear loosing their voice if for some reason their vote power goes to zero. I think that in order for a new member to be able to vote that there should be a minimum entry submit ion requirement also.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:02 am
Just setting the record straight as some of the comments made are incorrect.

Firstly, moderators don't know who the author of an entry is until after they have voted on it just like all other members. So don't think that moderators can play favorites, they can't.
Secondly, moderators only remove "suspicious" votes. When someone votes all entries 5% and one entry 100%, you can be assured that those votes will be removed as that person is obviously attempting to manipulate the contest. If someone votes lower (eg 40%) on an entry that is averaging 65%, the mods do nothing. It is the members prerogative to vote how they see the entry.
Thirdly, there are more people voting on entries now than there were on PST. There are only 3000 members at PXL compared to 30000 at PST. So the voting system isn't scaring members off, just some older members are pissed with the change.

Now I hear that people ask for jury voters to decide. Well what if those jury voters only like fairies and butterflies, is that fair? The idea of having vote power is that all members are jury voters, based on the fact that they vote a lot and that they vote closer to the the final results.
Having been a mod I have seen what giving newbies immediate vote power results in. A new member would join the site and his whole neighborhood would join just to vote on his entry. You guessed it, they all voted 100% and that entry would win. It was the members that asked for newbies not to have immediate vote power so as to stop this (you needed to have completed 7 entries).

All the changes in the vote system have come about because members have asked for it. It has evolved as the site has evolved. The new changes are there to hopefully spread the scores (and hopefully make them higher) by using more of the voting scale. This was asked for again in the forum not that long ago and MrM has attempted to resolve it.
And as for long time members that are now losing vote power, well they were the safe voters (this system picks them out). As for members that are now finishing higher in the "most accurate voters" that were never there before, it is because they have always voted with a larger range and this system rewards them.

The voting system and the vote power system in my opinion is probably the best it can be. The problem is the voters!!! If people will continue to give high votes because they like fairies and butterflies, well... what can I say. Hopefully they will lose vote power and their vote won't count and the members that evaluate entries properly and vote accordingly will gain vote power. Don't be influenced by anything else, vote the entry for what it is worth. Don't worry about vote power and it will come, I seem to gain it by voting on what I like and I can assure you it is not what always finishes first.
In saying that I have not been happy with a lot of the results, but that is my opinion and proves that everyone here determines the final result. And that is how it should be.
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