Many Thanks Rob!

Nator wrote:Dodge and Burn is allowed in all photo contest...can you show me a link where it states that.
I also agree with Friiskiwi. By the way, almost all "masters of photography" such as Penn, Avedon, Ansel Adams, Steichen and so on have heavily modified their images in the darkroom. Their end result was different then what they started with.

I still shoot film and have a "wet darkroom" in my basement...shooting film and using advanced darkroom techniques is a far cry from what today can be accomplished digitally if there is almost a no-holds-barred type of allowance in the photography side. Yes, they dodged and burned, Yes, they could do a type of HDR...(both of which are allowed by current rules), yes, they could shoot pannos...

BUT...could they completely add and subtract complete objects at whim? Could they work in layer after layer and save steps and go back for minor corrections? could they easily (not that they could) take 10 different shots and combine small elements of each to make an entirely new 11th photo? NO...

Selective skin smoothing and sharpening? Possible, but required many years of discipline to learn and hours upon hours to accomplish.

What Adams relied mainly on to accomplish what he did was to invent the "Zone System" to evaluate exposure (camera did not even have built in light meters....all done by hand and experience)...spend days waiting for the proper light and weather...and just 'get it right'. How many of you know what the 'zone system' is (without Googling it...know how to use it and CAN use it..if you do, can apply it to your B&W's or even know it exists...give yourself a hand)

To quote a famous quote..."Just because you can do a thing, does not necessarily mean you should do a thing."

Sorry, but I remain committed to my initial response on this...learn to get it right in camera. PS out power lines? Forget it...check your BG BEFORE you take the shot and compose it well. "Exit" sign in your BG?...recompose or move the subject if possible...crop out if you can...bad light? wait for better light (if natural light), reset the strobes (if studio), learn to shoot manual...

If you're REALLY serious about photograhy...shoot B&W film for a bit in an old (say Pentax K-1000 or Canon AE-1 for a bit) film camera and see what getting it right means....

robvdn wrote:

audreyj wrote:I vote for dodge and burn. Also just to let y'all know sometimes us newbs do read the forums

Dodge and burn are allowed in ALL photo contests already

I agree with James, Bob and Kyricom.
IMHO this would be a normal PS contest themed "Take one of your own shots and use Photoshop to enhance it"
Maybe better make a suggestion like that in the PS section.

I agree here...You guys want a 'no-holds-barred" Photo editing session....make it a PS contest...take your OWN photo and just go nutz... ....have fun and just do what U can....

BTW...I still own and shoot a working AGFA 1933 'folder' that shoots 120mm film...with a manual shutter and 12 exposure rolls...single (badly ground 1930 circa lens) and no view finder...LOL...it's a special trick to get a good exposure...anybody know the 'sunny 16' rule? Now that's OLD SCHOOL baby!!!

I still agree 100% with James.

(had a K-1000 for many years - and have still stuck with Pentax)

kyricom wrote:I still agree 100% with James.

(had a K-1000 for many years - and have still stuck with Pentax)

My first 35mm was a K-1000....I broked it....LOL...I have my first AE-1 still, looking for another good K-1000...built like a tank, full manual, wonderful film camera. Biggest drawback? You actually had to learn photography...LOL

AMEN! My first SLR was a 1964 Pentax Spotmatic. Until it died a few years ago it was still teaching me how to develop an eye without using any gimmicks.

CMYK46 wrote:AMEN! My first SLR was a 1964 Pentax Spotmatic. Until it died a few years ago it was still teaching me how to develop an eye without using any gimmicks.

Holy crap Dude...I know that model...LOL...they used them in my first photo classes....damn, we better calm down, we are showing our 'age'!

Some of these 'kids' here are gunna have to Google these models to know WTF we are talking about! Soon we are going to end up, stuffed, in a museum as Photo-a-saurs....hehe

James I have been a professional photographer for over 20years and I agree with the fact that you should shoot the image as best you can with minimal post production but the fact remains that "the masters" used darkroom modifications or filters on their lens to achieve what they are looking for and if they could have modified things with a click I am sure they would have. So why not use the current tools to better our images? Also if we want the true "purist" form of photography in these contests the allow only film generated images with no use of any photoshop tools or post production.

And Yes I started with a Pentax K1000.

Nator wrote:James I have been a professional photographer for over 20years and I agree with the fact that you should shoot the image as best you can with minimal post production but the fact remains that "the masters" used darkroom modifications or filters on their lens to achieve what they are looking for and if they could have modified things with a click I am sure they would have. So why not use the current tools to better our images? Also if we want the true "purist" form of photography in these contests the allow only film generated images with no use of any photoshop tools or post production.

And Yes I started with a Pentax K1000.

Buddy..I am there with you...I 'get it'...I'm certain if they could have, they would have...imagine the possibilities...however, lets keep something 'pure'. I'm not saying it should NEVER be allowed...but, let's make it a PS competition now and again...why make the photo-side a 'best PS-photog" competition? seriously?....there is a place for this type of photography...some of my clients demand retouching, but, for the purposes of this arena of competition, let's just let it be?

There is a huge difference in learning what 'filter' to use on the lens, and actual darkroom techniques that take hours to reproduce than just 'clicking' a button...you have to agree on that Nator...

Let's keep the photo-side as it is....if we want all 'all out photo editing war' as it were, than let's keep it to the PS side...what's wrong with that? we can teach and learn basics on photo-side and go 'hells bells' on PS.... fine, i'm down with it...I would LOVE to learn some new stuff...

I'm just sayng, no real reason to change photo...more and more photogs are getting tired of PS and going back to film for the challenge of getting it right.

If I get 'over-ruled', then so-be-it....but, there has to be a limitation or it's all just 'chopping' IMHO

I can see where you are coming from James. Perhaps have one contest where one can manipulate their own photograph(s) whether in the PS or Photography section might be an idea.

I made a contest suggestion in the line of this thread http://www.pxleyes.com/contest-suggesti ... -shot.html
Let me know if something needs to be added or changed.