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	<title>Comments on: Pros And Cons Of 3 Popular CSS Meta Frameworks</title>
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	<link>http://www.pxleyes.com/blog/2010/02/pros-and-cons-of-3-popular-css-meta-frameworks/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 11:50:56 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Ken Newman</title>
		<link>http://www.pxleyes.com/blog/2010/02/pros-and-cons-of-3-popular-css-meta-frameworks/#comment-5173</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Newman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 May 2010 18:17:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pxleyes.com/blog/?p=616#comment-5173</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this article, was just what I was looking for. Seems xCSS would be best for a CMS like WordPress as it&#039;d handle the hoops for you :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this article, was just what I was looking for. Seems xCSS would be best for a CMS like WordPress as it&#8217;d handle the hoops for you <img src='http://www.pxleyes.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.pxleyes.com/blog/2010/02/pros-and-cons-of-3-popular-css-meta-frameworks/#comment-4636</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Apr 2010 08:08:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pxleyes.com/blog/?p=616#comment-4636</guid>
		<description>@Martin,@Cedric Dugas,@Joshua

The notion that it would be &quot;slow as hell&quot; is incorrect, yes slower than native CSS but a simple PHP script for variables and operators etc. wouldn&#039;t, in most modern web applications, be the bottle neck. There almost certainly would be better targets for performance optimisation. If microscopic performance improvements do it for you then don&#039;t use any frameworks for anything, they&#039;re always slower, but they make life easier.

And it could give you much more than just variables and operators depending on your implementation but do you really need the other stuff? CSS has an inheritance model anyway (and let&#039;s face it, not that hard) and the final compiled result is still a traditional CSS file with the big long selectors etc. Sure compiling is great and a brief look-up of output buffering would show you a very simple but effective way of achieving this. More efficient and clever methods could be easily built with just a little more effort.

Let&#039;s remember that these frameworks are for rapid development, I think we&#039;re in danger of implementing so many frameworks that the benefits are lost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Martin,@Cedric Dugas,@Joshua</p>
<p>The notion that it would be &#8220;slow as hell&#8221; is incorrect, yes slower than native CSS but a simple PHP script for variables and operators etc. wouldn&#8217;t, in most modern web applications, be the bottle neck. There almost certainly would be better targets for performance optimisation. If microscopic performance improvements do it for you then don&#8217;t use any frameworks for anything, they&#8217;re always slower, but they make life easier.</p>
<p>And it could give you much more than just variables and operators depending on your implementation but do you really need the other stuff? CSS has an inheritance model anyway (and let&#8217;s face it, not that hard) and the final compiled result is still a traditional CSS file with the big long selectors etc. Sure compiling is great and a brief look-up of output buffering would show you a very simple but effective way of achieving this. More efficient and clever methods could be easily built with just a little more effort.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s remember that these frameworks are for rapid development, I think we&#8217;re in danger of implementing so many frameworks that the benefits are lost.</p>
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		<title>By: This Weeks Twitter Design News Roundup N.25 - Speckyboy Design Magazine</title>
		<link>http://www.pxleyes.com/blog/2010/02/pros-and-cons-of-3-popular-css-meta-frameworks/#comment-3750</link>
		<dc:creator>This Weeks Twitter Design News Roundup N.25 - Speckyboy Design Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:45:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pxleyes.com/blog/?p=616#comment-3750</guid>
		<description>[...] Pros And Cons Of 3 Popular CSS Meta Frameworks [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Pros And Cons Of 3 Popular CSS Meta Frameworks [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: You are now listed on FAQPAL</title>
		<link>http://www.pxleyes.com/blog/2010/02/pros-and-cons-of-3-popular-css-meta-frameworks/#comment-3697</link>
		<dc:creator>You are now listed on FAQPAL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:16:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pxleyes.com/blog/?p=616#comment-3697</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Pros And Cons Of 3 Popular CSS Meta Frameworks...&lt;/strong&gt;

We’re going to look at the big three metaframeworks that exist right now: xCSS, SASS, and Less....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Pros And Cons Of 3 Popular CSS Meta Frameworks&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>We’re going to look at the big three metaframeworks that exist right now: xCSS, SASS, and Less&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Mario Fischer</title>
		<link>http://www.pxleyes.com/blog/2010/02/pros-and-cons-of-3-popular-css-meta-frameworks/#comment-3686</link>
		<dc:creator>Mario Fischer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:48:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pxleyes.com/blog/?p=616#comment-3686</guid>
		<description>LessCSS + Mac:

Hi - very good article!

One addition to LessCSS, if you use a Mac: There&#039;s a very good free GUI tool called &quot;Less.app&quot; which automatically watches folders and recompiles on changes:

http://incident57.com/less/

mario</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LessCSS + Mac:</p>
<p>Hi &#8211; very good article!</p>
<p>One addition to LessCSS, if you use a Mac: There&#8217;s a very good free GUI tool called &#8220;Less.app&#8221; which automatically watches folders and recompiles on changes:</p>
<p><a href="http://incident57.com/less/" rel="nofollow">http://incident57.com/less/</a></p>
<p>mario</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.pxleyes.com/blog/2010/02/pros-and-cons-of-3-popular-css-meta-frameworks/#comment-3683</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:42:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pxleyes.com/blog/?p=616#comment-3683</guid>
		<description>@Catherine - It&#039;s not as complicated as it seems, although the lack of details doesn&#039;t help.  I use SASS and Compass (with the 960.gs CSS framework plugin) for all my projects, first with Ruby on Rails and in the last few months with PHP.

1. The first thing is to get Ruby installed.  On Mac you&#039;ll probably already have Ruby installed (open a Terminal and type &#039;ruby -v&#039;), on Linux you&#039;ll need to install it from your package manager (best do a search on Google for &#039;installing ruby on ubuntu&#039; or whatever).

For Windows, go to the Ruby website and download the One-Click Windows install (http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/downloads/).  Open up a commandline (Start Menu &gt; Run &gt; type &#039;cmd&#039;) and &#039;ruby -v&#039; to check it&#039;s installed.

2. After that you need to install RubyGems.  Gems are like plugins for Ruby.  So download RubyGems (http://rubyforge.org/frs/?group_id=126), the .zip if you&#039;re on Windows, .tar on Mac/Linux.

On Windows, extract the zip to somewhere easy to find (i.e. C:\rubygems).  Then go back to the commandline and type &#039;cd C:\rubygems&#039; (cd = change directory).  Then type &#039;ruby setup.rb&#039;.

On Mac/Linux, open up a Terminal, then type &#039;tar zxvf&#039; then drag the file you downloaded on the terminal window to get the path.  Type &#039;cd rubygems-1.3.5&#039;  then &#039;sudo ruby setup.rb&#039;.

Done.

3. Now you&#039;ve got Ruby and RubyGems installed you can install SASS: &#039;gem install haml&#039;.  SASS is part of HAML, an alternative markup language for Ruby.

4. Install Compass if you want to use Frameworks.
&#039;gem install compass&#039;

5. To create a new project using Compass from scratch use a command like:
compass -f blueprint project-name

Blueprint is the CSS framework, take a look at the Compass website for the other frameworks that are usable.

6.  The SASS files (by default) are placed in the src folder, these are the ones you edit.

7. So you don&#039;t need to keep re-compiling your stylesheets, switch to your project directory (&#039;cd project-name&#039;) and run the command &#039;compass -w&#039; (the -w is for watch).  Now it&#039;ll automatically update your style sheets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Catherine &#8211; It&#8217;s not as complicated as it seems, although the lack of details doesn&#8217;t help.  I use SASS and Compass (with the 960.gs CSS framework plugin) for all my projects, first with Ruby on Rails and in the last few months with PHP.</p>
<p>1. The first thing is to get Ruby installed.  On Mac you&#8217;ll probably already have Ruby installed (open a Terminal and type &#8216;ruby -v&#8217;), on Linux you&#8217;ll need to install it from your package manager (best do a search on Google for &#8216;installing ruby on ubuntu&#8217; or whatever).</p>
<p>For Windows, go to the Ruby website and download the One-Click Windows install (<a href="http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/downloads/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/downloads/</a>).  Open up a commandline (Start Menu &gt; Run &gt; type &#8216;cmd&#8217;) and &#8216;ruby -v&#8217; to check it&#8217;s installed.</p>
<p>2. After that you need to install RubyGems.  Gems are like plugins for Ruby.  So download RubyGems (<a href="http://rubyforge.org/frs/?group_id=126" rel="nofollow">http://rubyforge.org/frs/?group_id=126</a>), the .zip if you&#8217;re on Windows, .tar on Mac/Linux.</p>
<p>On Windows, extract the zip to somewhere easy to find (i.e. C:\rubygems).  Then go back to the commandline and type &#8216;cd C:\rubygems&#8217; (cd = change directory).  Then type &#8216;ruby setup.rb&#8217;.</p>
<p>On Mac/Linux, open up a Terminal, then type &#8216;tar zxvf&#8217; then drag the file you downloaded on the terminal window to get the path.  Type &#8216;cd rubygems-1.3.5&#8242;  then &#8216;sudo ruby setup.rb&#8217;.</p>
<p>Done.</p>
<p>3. Now you&#8217;ve got Ruby and RubyGems installed you can install SASS: &#8216;gem install haml&#8217;.  SASS is part of HAML, an alternative markup language for Ruby.</p>
<p>4. Install Compass if you want to use Frameworks.<br />
&#8216;gem install compass&#8217;</p>
<p>5. To create a new project using Compass from scratch use a command like:<br />
compass -f blueprint project-name</p>
<p>Blueprint is the CSS framework, take a look at the Compass website for the other frameworks that are usable.</p>
<p>6.  The SASS files (by default) are placed in the src folder, these are the ones you edit.</p>
<p>7. So you don&#8217;t need to keep re-compiling your stylesheets, switch to your project directory (&#8216;cd project-name&#8217;) and run the command &#8216;compass -w&#8217; (the -w is for watch).  Now it&#8217;ll automatically update your style sheets.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.pxleyes.com/blog/2010/02/pros-and-cons-of-3-popular-css-meta-frameworks/#comment-3678</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 02:15:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pxleyes.com/blog/?p=616#comment-3678</guid>
		<description>LESS seems to be pretty cool</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LESS seems to be pretty cool</p>
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		<title>By: Catherine Azzarello</title>
		<link>http://www.pxleyes.com/blog/2010/02/pros-and-cons-of-3-popular-css-meta-frameworks/#comment-3657</link>
		<dc:creator>Catherine Azzarello</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 02:23:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pxleyes.com/blog/?p=616#comment-3657</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been following meta frameworks for months. As a designer who does my own HTML and CSS coding, I am excited about variables and mix-ins. But I simply do no understand the Ruby part or the PHP part or simply--how to get started using a meta framework. Seems like all the sites (Less and Compass included) assume a higher level of programming knowledge.

When I asked other designers about it on DCTH (design chat Twitter hours) no one knew what I was talking about. 

Looks like there&#039;s a need for a plain-speaking geek to bridge the gap between design and CSS development! ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been following meta frameworks for months. As a designer who does my own HTML and CSS coding, I am excited about variables and mix-ins. But I simply do no understand the Ruby part or the PHP part or simply&#8211;how to get started using a meta framework. Seems like all the sites (Less and Compass included) assume a higher level of programming knowledge.</p>
<p>When I asked other designers about it on DCTH (design chat Twitter hours) no one knew what I was talking about. </p>
<p>Looks like there&#8217;s a need for a plain-speaking geek to bridge the gap between design and CSS development! <img src='http://www.pxleyes.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: LESS</title>
		<link>http://www.pxleyes.com/blog/2010/02/pros-and-cons-of-3-popular-css-meta-frameworks/#comment-3656</link>
		<dc:creator>LESS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:44:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pxleyes.com/blog/?p=616#comment-3656</guid>
		<description>[...] thirty times throughout the code, what you wished you had, was a a CSS meta framework. There are a few of them already, and LESS seems to be the easiest [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] thirty times throughout the code, what you wished you had, was a a CSS meta framework. There are a few of them already, and LESS seems to be the easiest [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua</title>
		<link>http://www.pxleyes.com/blog/2010/02/pros-and-cons-of-3-popular-css-meta-frameworks/#comment-3654</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:27:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pxleyes.com/blog/?p=616#comment-3654</guid>
		<description>@Martin

That only gets you partially there.  It really only gives you variables and operators, it doesn&#039;t add the semantic structure that these frameworks do - mainly the nesting and &quot;mixins&quot;.

Also, simply turning on parsing for a file that is nearly completely static is a waste of resources and you need to write a small caching scheme for it at least.  

In one of my &quot;custom&quot; php frameworks from the past I actually did php parsing on all javascript and css files - with caching built in.  That does work well enough for what it is, it just doesn&#039;t provide the more important things provided by the frameworks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Martin</p>
<p>That only gets you partially there.  It really only gives you variables and operators, it doesn&#8217;t add the semantic structure that these frameworks do &#8211; mainly the nesting and &#8220;mixins&#8221;.</p>
<p>Also, simply turning on parsing for a file that is nearly completely static is a waste of resources and you need to write a small caching scheme for it at least.  </p>
<p>In one of my &#8220;custom&#8221; php frameworks from the past I actually did php parsing on all javascript and css files &#8211; with caching built in.  That does work well enough for what it is, it just doesn&#8217;t provide the more important things provided by the frameworks</p>
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